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Someone named TJ (Teresa) Searcy was kind enough to have invited me to attend a BurnLounge function here in Memphis on Wednesday night at Holiday Inn Select - 2nd Floor Ballroom 5795 Poplar @ I-240, Memphis on Wednesday, May 23, 6:30pm. After receiving the evite, I responded that I might be attending. I got frustrated with her emailing me the same evite repeatedly (four times in 12 hours). So after I had already responded saying I might attend, I did some research that I think people should check out. You see, folks, BurnLounge is a giant scam and they’re using some big names to try to convince you that they’re for real.
Memphis is a city filled with individuals who make art desperate for a chance to earn a living from their art. BurnLounge being a giant pyramid scheme, what better place to take advantage of people’s greed and ignorance than the city where stands a giant pyramid as a looming suggestion of how easily people can be manipulated. Everyone around here is desperate to make a buck, so who better to use as “marks” in the scheme than your own friends and family (or people who dream of making money on the internet)? When you see “Justin Timberlake Enterprises” and “Elvis Presley Enterprises” as people included in their “store owners”, you might be able to suspend your disbelief long enough to pay the fee to, as you would be led to believe, sell music. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The Fine Print (or what the hell is wrong with these people):
1) BurnLounge uses interchangeable language to sell you on their “store owner” concept. People are led to believe that they can sell music through their store; however, BurnLounge’s financial schematic doesn’t really revolve around sales — it revolves around what all MLM’s revolve around, signing people up under you as “store owners”. They use the language of the music industry as a ply to get you to come on board and be involved. If you replace their references to the music industry in their pitches with any other industry — vitamins, time shares, cleaning products — you will get the exact same pitches used by notorious MLM’s like Herbalife, Amway, and many many others.
2) Up until recently, the format of the songs you could purchase were only good for people who are running Windows and are using Windows Media Player. No brainer, it’s not a tech-savvy site because, think about it, they don’t care if you sell/buy anything or not. Even though they now sell MP3’s, it changes nothing. The reason they made this change was to continue to look like they are “developing strategy” when, in reality, they’re just changing their tune to fit the model.
3) The only way someone can find your “store” is to search from within the BurnLounge interface — there are no direct links to your store that you can give to people, you can’t find your store in Google by searching for it, and you have to email people to get them to join you — which fits directly in line with the MLM model. Edit: They have direct links to stores enabled now and people have dedicated sites that merely redirect you to their BurnLounge stores.
4) Most Many of the songs (it is widely reported) are horrible quality, don’t work on your iPod, and/or are off-brand versions of the originals – and if you email their support team about it, you will get slow or no response to your issue, something you don’t find happening with iTunes. Among these many versions you will find many karaoke versions of well-known songs, instrumentals, and the like. Why is this? Because they’re not actually making the partnership deals with the major labels that they promise they are. The labels are all hip to what BurnLounge is and are unwilling to license their premium content to BurnLounge because of what it is: a top-heavy scam.. Edit: Major labels do license their content to BurnLounge, however licensing agreements are not the same as partnerships.
5) Representatives use misinformation to get you to buy-in to their plan. I have been approached by more than one person with a BurnLounge store who repeatedly denies that what they are doing is in any way a pyramid scheme. If you look at their model and what it is, there is nothing else that it can be.
6) You can make money, but not necessarily from sales of yours/other people’s music. You can make money either by signing people up as store owners or by selling songs. The primary method of generating income (as with all MLM’s) is how many people you sign up underneath you. Edit:You may have to complete a “sales quota”, but this is only so that you maintain a regular financial contribution to the downline.
7) They are quick to tell you about their affiliations with celebrity names in order to get you interested in making money with them. What they don’t tell you is that these people are all top-levels on the pyramid and you, who end up on the bottom rung of the pyramid, are not getting the same residuals as Rick Dees, Shaquille O’Neal, MC Lyte, Ted Nugent, and the others whose names they throw around. See, those people have thousands of contacts to place in their own downline. If you don’t, then you don’t earn any money.
This is network marketing that attacks the very fabric of Memphis’ music underbelly, manipulating and feeding on the hopes that you’ll get some mailbox money for your work as an artist. There is nothing I can say to you to make you stop what you’re doing, Justin Timberlake (why is Futuresex/Lovesounds is all but absent from BurnLounge even though you have a store?), but know that the Federal Trade Commission is keeping an eye on BurnLounge even though they’re trying to now manipulate people into believing their site is another social networking site for music fans in yet another attempt to create new marks for your so-called business.
Detractors say, “What’s your problem, E.J.? Are you against making money?” I’m all for making money in the music industry through doing what you’re supposed to do: making good product. If you agree with me, perhaps you should show up to this function and ask the tough questions like “Who do you think you’re fooling?” I’m all for competition with iTunes, but this is not the model, not the way, and not a smart investment for anyone looking to make a living off of their own music.
Additonal Reading:
BurnLounge is doomed to failure @ Puramu’s ITtoolbox Blog
Everything Just So
Flutterby
Wikipedia Entry on BurnLounge
Google Search for BurnLounge scam
1Lane Romero-Reiss on May 21, 2007 at 6:46 pm:
EJ,
I believe you are actually looking out for the best interests of the artists, which I respect. However, many of your statements about Burnlounge are actually inaccurate. Some statements are easily refuted with just a little research, while others strike me as a clear misinterpretation of the model. I would like to clarify some of these points with you, if you are amenable.
Sincerely,
Lane Romero-Reiss
2E.J. on May 21, 2007 at 7:08 pm:
Well here’s the problem, Lane. You want to engage me in order to convince me of something that I already have quantified data and understanding about. I’m certainly not alone, a Google search turns up a bevvy of information that backs my opinions. Though I may be somewhat outside the lines on specifics, the overall picture remains the same.
There is no way to explain away what it is about BurnLounge that makes it an MLM/Pyramid Scheme nor the fact that nobody has to sell anything in order to earn money from it.
This is not only bad for artists, it’s bad for our business, one which prides itself on creating fans and generating interest in music rather than promoting a means to misuse work which you don’t own in order to give people who may care nothing about music a way to earn money from it.
I find a kinship between multi-level marketing techniques and the work of missionaries to convert people to various religions. I disagree with the latter as much or more than I disagree with the former. To start a dialogue with my readers would invest them in hearing more about what makes BurnLounge good in the hopes to get them involved in the game rather than recognizing it for what it is and just walking away.
3Todd on May 21, 2007 at 8:46 pm:
Google “Jesus Christ” and see what you come up with…Is BL a Direct Sales company/MLM - YES…Does that make it a pyramid? Well, let’s see - There are more millionaires that have come out of Herbalife, Amway, etc. than any business model in the world…You are using our business model (and, what company in the world does not look like your above graph? - Microsoft? Insert Bill Gates in the top triangle…) as your excuse, and you are blogging about it with complete misinformation…It’d be like me blogging about Memphis music when all I have to go on is what I have seen on the internet…Makes no sense…Sit down with a top retailer and ask any/all questions…We’ll be honest, forthright, and contrite…You can now get involved at no cost - as a free retailer…Sit down as a businessman, and not as a Blogger, and look at it with an open mind…I’ll bet you my BL check - which is 5 figures weekly - that you’ll understand what BL is…If it’s not for you, then no worries…No different than chinese food ain’t for me…
All my Best!
4TJ (Teresa) Searcy / BURNLOUNGE on May 21, 2007 at 9:11 pm:
Hi, E.J.
Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the merits of BURNLOUNGE online for full viewing by those who might find your site and want to learn more about BURNLOUNGE for Memphis artists AND about the Memphis meeting this Wednesday May 23rd.
I was suprised to get such a slap across the face with your strong online comments before we’ve even met. I’ve never been on the receiving end of something like that before and I’ve got to say it was quite a shock (ouch!).
I apologize that you received multiple copies of the e-vite invitation. I know that can be annoying and that was certainly not my intention.
If there was a “glitch” in the e-vite I’m sure it could probably be blamed on my own operator error (even though I’ve always considered myself a “tech chick”).
Fortunately no one else has complained and most all other responses have been extremely positive with people commenting that they are very interested in learning more about BURNLOUNGE.
E.J., You appear to be an intelligent person -
I’m sure you would not base your beliefs about BURNLOUNGE from only one source without trying to get more information to understand both sides of an issue.
Hopefully you or a friend or family member has not had a bad experience with BURNLOUNGE.
However, if you HAVE, please give me the opportunity to talk with you in person and get your feedback so we can improve the process for whatever gave you such an unhappy attitude about BURNLOUNGE.
On the other hand, if you have NOT personally had an experience with BURNLOUNGE please give me the chance to meet you and again get your feedback on what should be improved from a PR perspective so that others don’t get the same preconceived ideas as you.
Looking in from the outside can often give a different impression than what the reality of a business like BURNLOUNGE might be. EVERYONE should check out things for themselves, rather than letting someone else tell them what to think - whether that’s you, me, or anyone else giving the information.
A wise man examines both sides of an issue before making up their mind.
If you’re available this week or next for coffee or lunch - please let me treat you (feel free to bring your wife or girlfriend if you like as well). We can discuss your concerns with BURNLOUNGE.
Additionally, I’d like to have you join me as my personal guest at this week’s BURNLOUNGE meeting and I’ll introduce you to some of the senior people with BURNLOUNGE.
You can ask them any question and they will be able to help you understand how the business works and why we have many of the best known names in entertainment as BURNLOUNGE owners.
E.J.:
There is a reason well-known artists and organizations such as JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE and THE ELVIS PRESLEY ESTATE are BURNLOUNGE owners.
They do not feel that BURNLOUNGE is a scam or a waste of their time. They see BURNLOUNGE as a valid way for moving more of Memphis Music and making money for Memphis artists.
Your profile says that you are also in the music business (record magnate?) I believe that once you have a chance to ask questions and “kick the tires” with someone who represents BURNLOUNGE even you might be turned into a fan and find that it will help your LOUDERSOFT music business as well.
You have my contact information - please call or e-mail me to discuss and I look forward to meeting you.
If anyone else would like to contact me about Wednesday night’s BURNLOUNGE Event I can be reached at TJSearcy@EncodingChix.com
TJ Searcy
http://www.EncodingChix.com
Phone: 901. 413. 7987
PS: We’re big fans of LORD T & ELOISE (photos on your site).
In fact, Lord T (Cam Mann) also served on THE MEMPHIS & SHELBY COUNTY COMMISSION ON MUSIC and last October he VOTED TO APPROVE their becoming BURNLOUNGE owners.
Cameron (Lord T) is a great guy and recently was kind enough to serve as one of our Judges for a CARNIVAL MEMPHIS Charity Event.
Ask LORD T what HE thinks about BURNLOUNGE next time you take his photo.
5E.J. on May 21, 2007 at 11:51 pm:
First off, TJ, this is not a personal affront to you. This is about BurnLounge and why there is always a giant, enormous, 500 pound elephant in the room whenever anyone talks about BurnLounge. I apologize if you took some personal affront to my comments, but much like you did with my own comments on your eVite, I have edited yours down.
I have been on conference calls with the owners of BurnLounge — the most common of all MLM tactics — on more than one occasion. Ask them, they’ll remember me. Further, I was with Cameron this afternoon and we talked about BurnLounge. So, yes, I have asked Lord T what he thinks about BURNLOUNGE, but I don’t use this site as a sounding board where I bandy about the minutiae of my personal conversations with people. If he wants to tell you what he thinks, I will let him do that.
I worked for a record label, yes, and I examined the BurnLounge model extensively for several weeks, recognizing within the first week exactly what it is. How can you not when people are coming out of the wood work begging you to sign up under them so, ostensibly, they can earn commission from your “store ownership”? It was rejected patently, and it’s none of my business why JT or EP Enterprises are involved: they make mistakes just like anyone else. Unlike legitimate models of content acquisition and promotion, BurnLounge serves only one purpose: to make money. The question arises, frequently, at what cost to the artist who, mistakenly, believes owning one of your stores will elevate or assist in promoting their music on a wider scale?
Claims in this department are suspicious as there is no, not one codified or documented in any way, shape, or form, example of how an artist has gotten mass exposure as a result of BurnLounge. I love Preston Shannon, and I love my city. That’s why I can’t let them fall victim to this mess, and I’m sorry to hear that you are so consumed with the language that you seem to believe it all.
None of the comments of yours that I’ve left address the core issue which is this: how is it that BurnLounge is not a multi-level marketing scam? You can’t address this issue without engaging people in “the pitch”. I have heard the pitch until I’m sick at my stomach. Like any good “sales associate”, you want me to meet with you face to face so I can see the bright, shining examples of people who are getting huge checks in their mailboxes every month. This is the same tactic employed by people who want to show me bright, shining examples of people who found Jesus in order to convert me to their religion, who want me to see bright, shining people who have found their own personal Jim Jones so I will join their cult, no different from those who want me to rally behind their misguided dreams of financial freedom through the MLM model.
This company is no different than Amway or Herbalife in its approach; the difference is that you’re intentionally misleading people into thinking it will help them promote their music when, in fact, it does nothing of the sort. There is no place in a creative industry for businesses whose purpose is to attach themselves to big names and throw them around in order to generate income for themselves.
The worst part is that I can’t talk about what a misguided concept this is without first bringing it up and giving it exposure that it neither warrants nor deserves. I have to give you free press in order to talk about why it’s horrible, and that’s the most disturbing part of the whole thing for me.
6Mike on May 22, 2007 at 6:25 am:
E.J.,
For an guy that claims to have experience in record/music industry, I find some of your remarks to be absolutely laughable. Let’s see…you’ve worked for a record label, you examined the BL model extensively, but unlike other legitimate models of content acquisition & promotion, BL serves one purpose and that is to make money?? You’ve got to be kidding…do you really believe that the labels are in the game for any other reason than to make money?? Wake up sir…the ONLY reason the major & independent labels care about an artist is for profit. Nothing more, nothing less…it’s all about generating profits. I’m sure you will have some well rehearsed retort to that statement, but it is a hard & cold fact of the business…PROFIT is the only motivation for the labels. That’s why they call it a “business”…not a charity, not a non-profit organization. It’s a business which exists to make money. To think otherwise is pure fantasy!
You owe it to yourself & the artists you claim to support to thoroughly understand what the BL model means to independent artists and actually speak to some of the independents that are moving thousands of units via BL. It is clear that you have not done so and have not taken the time to investigate what the BL model can offer these up & coming artists…a non-exclusive licensing agreement, ability to upload their content for FREE, tracking through SoundScan, digital distribution that pays out $5-$6/unit ($0.50-$0.70/track)vs maybe a $1-$1.50/unit as a new artist w/a major label deal. Do your homework.
Regarding your comments about the MLM industry as a whole… I’m not here to defend it. There have clearly been abuses in the industry, just as there have been with many other companies that employ a traditional sales & marketing model. But at the end of the day, there are numerous direct sales companies that drive billions in sales annually(including the ones you’ve mentioned), that have been in business for 10-20 years plus and that are legitimate & sustainable business models. Most MLM deals may not be for you or me, but again, do your homework.
Ultimately, your claim that you have “examined the BurnLounge model extensively for several weeks” seems to be more about emotion than fact. I encourage you to go through a due diligence process that involves more than repeating what you read on the blogs from Google & talking to handful of people that have absolutely nothing to do the direction of this company. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but when your comments are not factually acurate they must be challenged. When people are properly informed about the high profile celebs & athletes, Fortune 500/1000 corporate sponsors and strategic partners & major venture capital investors that are fully engaged with this company and the vetting process that BL had to go through to warrant that involvement then it becomes clear who brings an objective assessment to the discussion.
Do your homework E.J.
7TJ (Teresa) Searcy / BURNLOUNGE on May 22, 2007 at 7:58 am:
Hi, E.J.
Thanks for your reply -
I appreciate your allowing dialogue about BURNLOUNGE on your site - it gives viewers the ability to consider both sides fairly to make up their own minds.
I also admire the fact that while you edit down contributors comments you do not change the text of our responses.
Again, sorry you’ve had a bad exposure in the past to BURNLOUNGE - but you do seem to want to do the right thing by Memphis artists.
I would respectfully request that you HELP MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MEMPHIS by attending Wednesday night’s meeting with me and let’s work through the concerns you have about BURNLOUNGE.
ANTONIO PARKINSON, Chairman of The Memphis & Shelby County Music Commission, will be speaking at the BURNLOUNGE Event tomorrow night and I’m sure he would be happy to talk with you and explain The Commissions thoughts about BURNLOUNGE. He would probably also appreciate your feedback on how we can make this project as successful as possible in Memphis.
One thing Antonio mentioned when The Music Commission first investigated BURNLOUNGE was the fact that they LIKED the requirement BURNLOUNGE has that each BURNLOUNGE site must sell a minimum amount of music each month (at least 20 songs - or two albums).
That requirement told him BURNLOUNGE is not just about blindly signing up everyone you can - but the goal is to SELL MORE PRODUCT.
There are 50,000+ BURNLOUNGE stores nationwide moving a minimum of 20 songs a month (and many stores are doing much more) -
That adds up to OVER ONE MILLION SONGS downloaded on BURNLOUNGE sites each month or TWELVE MILLION SONGS sold per year.
This year BURNLOUNGE is also going international - with Canada, Australia, and soon Europe and Japan coming online for their own BURNLOUNGE stores (they can already BUY from U.S. BURNLOUNGE stores over the web - soon they can also have their OWN BURNLOUNGE stores overseas).
So you can see that growth will be exponential world-wide with BURNLOUNGE moving even more content online.
In Memphis today there is a different approach to BURNLOUNGE than what you might have earlier experienced in the past with some people taking the MLM approach.
Antonio Parkinson and The Music Commission see BURNLOUNGE as a way to gain exposure and distribute content for Memphis Artists worldwide.
The Commission had been considering building their own online application for distributing Memphis artists content. BURNLOUNGE gave them the ready-built tool to do what they hoped to achieve without their having to come up with the multi-million dollar investment.
BURNLOUNGE 2.0 is the result of over five years work and more than $10 million in software development costs - BURNLOUNGE provides a very sophisticated method for distribution of content over the web world-wide.
BURNLOUNGE started with MUSIC and will soon be adding the ability for our selling MOVIES/VIDEO, AUDIO BOOKS, GAMES, RING-TONES, and even ARCHIVED TV SHOWS on our BURNLOUNGE stores (perhaps your mom might like that last episode of “I Love Lucy” - you can download it for her as a gift).
THAT IS WHAT BURNLOUNGE IS AT ITS BEST - a wonderful distribution channel that opens up opportunities most ARTISTS and even RECORD COMPANIES would never have available on their own.
There is NO COST for having your content placed online in BURNLOUNGE and you DO NOT have to own a BURNLOUNGE to have your content for sale on the more than 50,000 BURNLOUNGE online stores nation-wide.
BURNLOUNGE 2.0 also NOW provides the ability to give away FREE BURN PAGES that can be customized with MySpace-like widgets and are an excellent value add-on to someone who owns a MySpace page.
For artists, business people, churches, schools, and organizations who wish to monetize their BURNLOUNGE the free pages can be upgraded to a full BURNLOUNGE STORE at a reasonable price - giving you your own “corner record store on the web” where you can showcase your favorite albums.
Outside of the 20 songs a month requirement, there is NO QUOTA for BURNLOUNGE owners and they are NOT REQUIRED to sign up additional users beneath them.
If someone wants to own a BURNLOUNGE store ONLY to sell their material they can do so. For those who DO want to make MOGUL BONUSES, you are paid when anyone signs up under your store to own their own BURNLOUNGE. You are also paid for any content sold on those stores who sign up under your BURNLOUNGE store. This includes ALL CONTENT SOLD ON THE FREE PAGES that you give away.
Giving away the FREE PAGES for BURNLOUNGE has been VERY SUCCESSFUL with large Student Association and Non-Profit groups (WORLD VISION is a good example - and Hope Presbyterian just signed up for BURNLOUNGE here in Memphis).
Large groups like this can give away FREE PAGES to everyone in their organization as well as to all their family members and reap the profits of any content sales from all those pages.
The best part is that CONTENT OWNERS (the songwriters, performers, record companies who own the content) are paid between $4.00-6.00 per CD sold on their own or any other BURNLOUNGE site in the world.
THAT IS WHY ELVIS PRESLEY ENTERPRISES and JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE have their own BURNLOUNGE stores - - it’s extra revenue streams through additional retail outlets.
BURNLOUNGE means more exposure and more sales for Memphis Artists - - whether they personally own a BURNLOUNGE store or not.
PLEASE JOIN ME WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND LET’S DISCUSS FURTHER -
You have some valid concerns about BURNLOUNGE that everyone needs to have addressed. If you can get answers that make you feel comfortable with BURNLOUNGE I hope you would be glad to find that out as well.
I invited Cameron Mann (Lord T) to this event - I’ll follow up with him and hope he can join us too. Cam’s a great guy and I’ve told him that I will showcase his albums on my own BURNLOUNGE site whether he signs up his group or record company for BURNLOUNGE or not.
I’ll look for you tomorrow night and we can sit together. I’m a tall blonde and will be there early.
If you don’t make it this week let’s keep the dialogue going with an open mind on both sides. I’m sure I can learn a lot from you.
Have a great day, E.J.
TJ (Teresa) Searcy
Phone: 901. 413. 7987
TJSearcy@EncodingChix.com
http://www.EncodingChix.com
8TJ (Teresa) Searcy / BURNLOUNGE on May 22, 2007 at 8:16 am:
E.J. -
I thought you might like to see the following comments about BURNLOUNGE from hip-hop artist MC LYTE:
MC LYTE
MC Lyte on BURNLOUNGE: “It puts me and my fans in charge.”
MC Lyte, with her gravelly voice and signature hard-edged style, came to BURNLOUNGE before her latest album, Back 2 Lyte, hit stores on June 9th.
To assist her in spreading the word through her BURNLOUNGE, she has put together a a team of retailers consisting of Shawn Stockman (of Boyz II Men), Angie Stone, MEKHI PHIFER (of E.R. and 8 Mile), NBA star Derrick Coleman, Yo-Yo, and actor Wood Harris (of HBO’s The Wire).
Not stopping there, through contact with John Monopoly she was even able to enlist KANYE WEST and WENDY WILLIAMS to join up with BURNLOUNGE.
Together, this team hopes to spread the music that they love to the widest possible audience.
“BURNLOUNGE has given me a platform to showcase my new music,” Lyte says.
- - -
This is how we want to use BURNLOUNGE to help Memphis artists.
I found this at http://www.squidoo.com/burn_lounge
Thanks -
tjs
9Lane Romero-Reiss on May 22, 2007 at 10:01 am:
EJ,
I can see that you have made up your mind about Burnlounge, and it seems unlikely that anything anyone says will change that for you. So be it. However, since much of what YOU wrote was either misguided or outright wrong, I feel compelled to address it, so that others may make an informed decision about whether to get involved with Burnlounge. I’m going to include what you wrote, and my responses to your statements, below:
1) BurnLounge uses interchangeable language to sell you on their “store owner” concept. People are led to believe that they can sell music through their store; however, BurnLounge’s financial schematic doesn’t really revolve around sales — it revolves around what all MLM’s revolve around, signing people up under you as “store owners”. They use the language of the music industry as a ply to get you to come on board and be involved. If you replace their references to the music industry in their pitches with any other industry — vitamins, time shares, cleaning products — you will get the exact same pitches used by notorious MLM’s like Herbalife, Amway, and many many others.
First, Burnlounge does not tell people they own a store. People sign up as independent retailers for Burnlounge. People are not led to believe that they can sell music through their store; THEY CAN sell music through their store. To say that Burnlounge’s financial schematic doesn’t really revolve around sales is true only if you are limiting yourself to examining the front end compensation model, which is solely for those who sign up through Burnlounge’s mogul program. The back end model, which is for ALL retailers, including those who sign up at the FREE level, is ALL about sales.
2) Up until recently, the format of the songs you could purchase were only good for people who are running Windows and are using Windows Media Player. No brainer, it’s not a tech-savvy site because, think about it, they don’t care if you sell/buy anything or not. Even though they now sell MP3’s, it changes nothing. The reason they made this change was to continue to look like they are “developing strategy” when, in reality, they’re just changing their tune to fit the model.
Version 1.0 was web-based because it was developed using the software of one of its partners, Beatport, while development was taking place for version 2.0. Functionality was limited by the constraints of what the existing software was capable of. It wasn’t because Burnlounge didn’t care if anything was bought or sold. It was a simple matter of a start-up company using the resources it had at its disposal while further developing the business.
3) The only way someone can find your “store” is to search from within the BurnLounge interface — there are no direct links to your store that you can give to people, you can’t find your store in Google by searching for it, and you have to email people to get them to join you — which fits directly in line with the MLM model.
Since we are all independent retailers for Burnlounge, it makes sense that our web address would have the burnlounge name in it. That does not mean you can’t give them a direct web address. Everyone’s store is simply http://www.burnlounge.com/“theirstorename”. My store is http://www.burnlounge.com/lsk. It is the EXACT same scenario as MySpace (company name followed by the individual site address). E-mailing people to tell tham about Burnlounge is actually often discouraged by most top retailers, because it is too impersonal.
4) Most of the songs are horrible quality and/or are off-brand versions of the originals – karaoke versions, instrumentals, and the like. Why is this? Because they’re not making the deals with the major labels that they promise they are. The labels are all hip to what BurnLounge is and are unwilling to license their premium content to BurnLounge because of what it is: a top-heavy scam.
This is patently untrue. I have downloaded over ten albums from Burnlounge, and the quality of EVERY one has been great (256 kbps, which is considered CD quality). These were not karoake knock-offs, either. I invite anyone to find a Burnlounge page on their own and search for some of their favorite music. Does the catalog include EVERYTHING you might want? No, of course not. Certain labels and artists are limiting themselves with exclusive arrangements with certain sites and services. Burnlounge cannot help that. However, I think you’ll be surprised at how much Burnlounge DOES have.
5) Representatives use misinformation to get you to buy-in to their plan. I have been approached by more than one person with a BurnLounge store who repeatedly denies that what they are doing is in any way a pyramid scheme. If you look at their model and what it is, there is nothing else that it can be.
First, pyramid schemes are illegal because they have no product to sell and make their money only from signing people up. Burnlounge has a product and will be adding more content to their catalog over the next few months. Additionally, if it were a pyramid scheme, why on Earth would they offer people the ability to sign up for FREE?!?!!? Where is the profit in the scam from that tactic? Clearly, the free store shows that they are simply trying to create a vast distribution network in order to sell more product.
This is network marketing that attacks the very fabric of Memphis’ music underbelly, manipulating and feeding on the hopes that you’ll get some mailbox money for your work as an artist. There is nothing I can say to you to make you stop what you’re doing, Justin Timberlake (why is Futuresex/Lovesounds is all but absent from BurnLounge even though you have a store?), but know that the Federal Trade Commission is keeping an eye on BurnLounge even though they’re trying to now manipulate people into believing their site is another social networking site for music fans in yet another attempt to create new marks for your so-called business.
I invite everyone to look at this company objectively and get all the facts for themselves before making a decision. I have heard retailers make claims that were uuntrue, but as you can see from above, this is not limited to the retailers. Critics have done the same thing, but seem to think it doesn’t matter if they have done their homework or not. All I ask is that the reader does theirs.
Lane
10E.J. on May 22, 2007 at 3:21 pm:
For those of you who don’t want to read all of the laughable, cult-ridden nonsense that the “sales team” has said, let me summarize:
I told the BurnLounge people that their model is a big, humongous scam of untold proportions. They came after me as if I had just said something to them like Jesus Christ was not the son of God. Rather than try to prove me wrong, they tried to insult my intelligence and make themselves look like they are good, honest business people who are just trying to make a buck promoting music.
Another grand tactic of MLM’s: if you can’t dazzle them briliance, baffle them with bullshit. Give people so much information that they forget what the real issue is. Nice work, everyone.
Now I’m telling them and all of you: examine the model, tell me again, for the fifteenth time, how is this NOT an MLM. Show me codified sales figures of 10 artists who have entered the Billboard charts *as a result* of significant SALES from BURNLOUNGE stores. Show me conclusive evidence of career-building from the BurnLounge model.
You can’t do any of this because I’m right. I encourage everyone to read extensively on BurnLounge and on MLM’s then save your money and time.
11E.J. on May 22, 2007 at 3:32 pm:
One last thing, TJ, and this is in direct response to a portion of your response:
This requirement is the same requirement held by thousands of MLM’s — reaching your sales quota. In other MLM’s, you have to buy a case of vitamins every month or a handful of timeshares yourself in order to fulfill the quota. If 20 songs a month costs me 20 bucks, I’m gonna buy 20 songs a month out of my pocket so I keep getting the fat residual check from my “down line” or the people above/below me in the pyramid. See? Replace MP3’s with vitamins, time shares, insurance, and you’ve still got a model that has been shut down for violating the FTC’s Pyramid/Ponzi/MLM Scheme more times than any other model in history.
In essence, it sounds to me like our Memphis & Shelby County Music Commission, along with thousands of others, are saying, “It’s okay that we’re violating federal guidlines because we’re selling music and not timeshares or vitamins”.
12TJ (Teresa) Searcy / BURNLOUNGE on May 22, 2007 at 5:30 pm:
E.J.
Others may not feel the same - but I hate giving up on you.
You wouldn’t be making such a big deal about BURNLOUNGE if you really didn’t want to have some recognition.
Albeit you’re like a kid on the outside throwing rocks - - you don’t seem to be able to “let go”. You keep falling back on the same arguments without addressing legitimate responses.
To your accusation of BURNLOUNGE “violating federal guidelines” . . .
You’re a smart guy:
Why would you make a statement like that when you could easily have researched the answer first?
BURNLOUNGE wouldn’t be in business if they were not meeting “Federal guidelines” on the front end.
Someone of the caliber of billionaire JEFF HOFFMAN, founder of Priceline, or RICK DEES, or CARSON DAILY would NOT be involved with a shady business deal and risk their professional reputations.
Especially if what you believe to be a scam could so easily be uncovered by a “record label magnate” in Memphis, Tennessee.
Get real, E.J.!
Keep throwing out your remarks and stay on the outside looking in. It’s always good to get more publicity for BURNLOUNGE.
It’s also a win-win for you as well - because this discussion gives you more mileage for your site while continuing to get people to talk about BURNLOUNGE.
THANKS -
Hope to see you tomorrow night and let’s continue to stay in touch. You’re probably truly a nice guy after all.
TJ Searcy
901. 413. 7987
TJSearcy@EncodingChix.com
http://www.EncodingChix.com
13E.J. on May 22, 2007 at 6:00 pm:
I think you might have taken the term “record label magnate” a bit far in this thread. I have worked for a number of record labels, but as far as being a “magnate”, the jury is still out.
You’re kidding, right? I’m pretty sure I’ve addressed your responses. Here’s one you still haven’t addressed: if you’re committed to selling music, why is BurnLounge’s model so reliant on building massive numbers of online stores instead of on promoting music? Or here’s another: why are your instructional videos focused on recruiting new store owners instead of on what your content is?
First off, I said the model of MLM/Pyramid/Ponzi schemes violates federal guidelines. People keep starting them and, eventually, the government keeps shutting them down. I mean, there are people moving keys of cocaine and tonnes of heroin through our country every day. I guess if they haven’t been stopped yet, then they must be operating within the confines of the law. Nice attempt at side-stepping the issue: the jury remains out on whether or not BurnLounge is meeting federal guidelines. Just because you haven’t been tried and convicted doesn’t mean the company’s concept is clean.
As for big names being associated with BurnLounge, I say so effing what? Believe me: you need those big names more than they need you. Michael Jordan was the spokesperson for MCI. Would he have gotten into bed with them if he had known there would be an accounting scandal associated with the company? What about Enron? Or, to get really political, what about all those Haliburton contracts associated with the war in Iraq?
Tell me this: why are there no advertisements on your site for upcoming artist releases? Why are there no dedicated promotional materials for your stores provided by artists’ record labels? I’ll tell you why: because record labels don’t want to do business with you.
As for the free publicity for BurnLounge, this is totally hilarious. You give both yourself and the company far too much credit for being something you’re most certainly not. Neither I nor my website requires a story about your company’s enormous scam in order to build its reputation or its traffic. I did just fine before you and I’ll do just fine after I’m done exposing your MLM tactics, ones that you keep trying to pull me in with, for the fraud that they are. You just keep the dream alive — keep believing you’re doing noble work by fooling people into getting into your downline so you can get that nice sweet residual check for doing *absolutely nothing* related to helping artists or musicians directly. You can keep talking about what this will do for people all you want, but you and I both know this is a fact — The Memphis & Shelby County Music Commission’s online BurnLounge store still has not paid for itself even a year later.
Meanwhile, I’m going to keep actively writing about and promoting the music I discover which, after all, is what Loudersoft has always been about.
14Mike on May 22, 2007 at 7:41 pm:
Here’s a suggestion for anybody that is trying to legitimately engage in a meaningful dialogue with this E.J. guy…make one attempt as I did and walk away. This kid carries no real credentials in the local music industry (I’ve done my homework!); and it’s more than obvious that he bring NO business discipline to the table…i.e. the concept of properly vetting a business deal is well beyond his pay grade. He has some major axe to grind…one of which is to be self- appointed consumer watch dog for pyramid scams. Sounds like this guy has too much time on his hands.
Face it people, this kid is nothing but a loose cannon and he’s a perfect example of what’s wrong with blogs & the internet…it’s serves as platform where anyone becomes a self-proclaimed expert on anything & everything! Amazing.
As for me, adios E.J. Just a suggestion, take the time to clean up the filthy language on your site…totally unnecessary & unprofessional when trying to make a point.
BTW, I was thoroughly impressed with you’re creative tag line…”I Am Not Afraid Of You And I Will Beat Your Ass” Very thought provoking.
15E.J. on May 22, 2007 at 7:49 pm:
Will you be offended if I stifle my desire to laugh out loud?
You mean like how to thrive in the world of MLM’s?
I have not used one curse word in making my point anywhere in my entire original post or thread (unless you count hell, and if you do the censors at the big three networks have asked for a chance to laugh at you in person). No, I take that back. I used the word bullshit, and I’m calling bullshit on you. Oops, that’s three times. Do I get detention?
It’s the name of an album by the band Yo La Tengo. I do this thing on my blog called writing about new releases by bands whose music I like from time to time.
I guess you didn’t do much homework after all.
Still no answers for my questions? Didn’t think so.
16mike on May 26, 2007 at 4:14 pm:
great thread! Nice to see you single-handedly taking on the ponzi kool aid sippers. It
is a common tactic for BLoungers to pounce on any negative online publicity. I’m pretty sure
it’s covered on conference calls and I’ll bet the instruction is to simply blog with marketing
drivel when a new exchange pops up on the net.
This exchange is very typical. The opponents state facts and point out the ethical issues.. the
proponents spew marketing, make personal attacks, and attempt to justify the compromised ethics.
Your comments are insightful as you have an interesting background. I think the most profound arguments you
have made are:
1. record labels don’t want to do business with you!
and
2. The dismal performance of Memphis & Shelby Co.Music Commission’s store
17Jackie G on May 29, 2007 at 8:12 am:
EJ, I learned a long time ago that you can’t say the right thing to the wrong person or the wrong thing to the right person. Obviously, you are not the right person to do this business, so I will not try to convince you otherwise. However, I do think that it is sad that other people may read this and be discouraged to get involved or just find out more about BurnLounge and how we really are changing the lives of artists and average business people like myself. I am personally making “life-changing” income from BurnLounge and my business is growing daily. I stress that it is a business and not the lottery or a get-rich quick scheme. It will require the same attention you would devote to any new business venture. I would also encourage anyone who’s life savings is $450 to reconcider. That is the top financial risk for what is potentially huge rewards. It is what you make it.
Only the Best,
Jackie G
18Joe on May 29, 2007 at 1:34 pm:
LOLZ
Seriously, how did you let these marketing nerds with their Young MC quotes on your site bro?
Really bad, these Burn Lounge people have done nothing to convince me that it is not just another MLM joke…
19E.J. on May 29, 2007 at 2:56 pm:
It’s MC Lyte, actually, and I think it’s a sad state of affairs that people have been forced into stooping to being a part of MLM’s involving music in order to survive out there.
The fact that BurnLounge can attract and mislead so many entertainers with big names is not a testament to how great of a company they are, but rather a tearful commentary on the state of the entertainment industry.
A word to MC Lyte, someone whose music I have great respect for: when they told us about “getting ours”, I promise you that BurnLounge wasn’t what they had in mind.
20Digital Surgeon on Jun 10, 2007 at 10:06 pm:
The FTC TRO was not upheld and BL continues on. A court date set to exmine the facts of business is schedule to occur in LA on 6/19. If the FTC says BL is OK EJ has to accept it. If he is right then the BL retailers have to accept that. End Of story. I just read the FTC briefs. Makes me think this is not about BL model but about what the Leaders of YBT said they made BLounging. that is a different story. Personally I think BL will live on.
21Digital Surgeon on Jun 10, 2007 at 10:20 pm:
I have had several attorneys look at BL from the retail investment and artist side and not one has said this model was flawed. I am very confident in my representation and I am very confident that corporate BL will be intact and go on. Personally I see this as the next step in it growing even faster. A govt stamp of approval will be the tail wind that will catch the model on fire. this blog argument is about music content. try understanding that the a monetized digital network that supports business is really a story about ads. if Google can make 60 million a month selling ads on myspace and they share nothing with the people who actually earn the money by clicking can you imagine what advertisers will pay once the myspace google deal runs out in a few yrs for eyeballs who have a vested interest in ads for the first time ever? that to me is the most compelling reason to look at BL and it is not the music or movies or anything else. I think ultimately the power of this network will be mad eby businessman who leverage it and make it something it was never intended to be. Personally, that holds the greatest vlaue to BL.
22E.J. on Jun 11, 2007 at 8:57 am:
You MLM folks just keep adding comments to this and people just keep reading — and laughing! All this talk about what I have to accept and what I don’t….well, here’s what I accept, and it’s not written by me or by BurnLounge — it’s by the Federal Trade Commission and it’s a Consumer Alert warning me against companies who do what BurnLounge does. I have highlighted the portion that makes BurnLounge an MLM, one which will ultimately lead to them changing how they do business 100%. Once everyone’s fat checks start disappearing, this story will be over.
We can’t all be wrong.
More on the story @ Hypebot
23Burnlounge Retailer on Jun 12, 2007 at 7:36 pm:
E.J., I have been doing this for over a year and have to say that I came to this business with the same point of view that you seem to have now. After spending a lot of time with this company and concept, it has become very evident when someone simply doesn’t understand what Burnlounge is and has to offer. For example, you mention scam. What part of this business is a scam? You pay to become a distributor of Burnlounge’s products and services as well as have the ability to use their brand for product recognition and to let people know that they can expect a quality experience. Doesn’t McDonald’s do the same thing? What about Microsoft? And doesn’t every Starbucks store owner run the risk of fighting in a hyper competitive market? In large cities they are literally right across the street from one another…. Also, with Burnlounge, options range from $0, $30, $129, or $429 per year (with more value built in at each level), what kind of risk is someone taking when they decide to open a side business? What would it take to open a McDonald’s? $1,000,000? Maybe more? And although McDonald’s doesn’t close it’s doors often, there is certainly no certainty of success with a heck of a lot more at risk. And although many people get extremely excited about the kind of opportunity Burnlounge provides them (to the point where they may make improper monetary claims about how much money they make, or how much a new candidate “will” make) I have never seen any, and I do mean ANY, claims from the corporate offices of Burnlounge. This opportunity can be a couple of dollars of profit a month or much more, it is completely up to each individual and the business they build, but at no point do we guarantee anything. How about just the website? What does it cost you a year to host your website or have technical problems dealt with quickly and accurately, just to name a few. Is it more than $30 per year? You know that it is. It is most likely more than the $429 per year. Anyway, to boil it all down, in hopes of opening your eyes (and anyone that might be skeptical) about Burnlounge, multi-level marketing is simply a profit sharing model as opposed to a salary based model. You get paid the money that companies typically pay for billboards and tv commercials for telling freinds and family about your products. Over the past couple of years Apple has spent over $100,000,000 to build the brand of iTunes - money that Burnlounge would have paid to its retailers instead… Also, you mentioned that the “big fish” is signing up retailers. This is only partly true. The way that this model works, is that you get paid to build your distribution chain (opening stores), but once you have a mature business, you then begin to make more money off of the sales in those stores as opposed to the “franchise” fee. If you look at Papajohn’s Pizza as an example, you would find that for the first number of years they operated, the only profit they made was off of franchising stores and very little off of the pizzas that were selling in those stores. Eventually, when they had reached a certain level of distribution, they then began to make more off of pizza sales than off of their franchise fees which were typically in the $100,000+ range per location per year. Does this mean that places like Domino’s or Papajohn’s are scams? I doubt you would say so. Lastly, why are we so hard on people trying something different? The only thing this business asks is for the retailer to find people they know to support them while they build a business. This isn’t Mary Kay where I am asking you to buy my product as opposed to one you really like (i.e. Revlon) based on our relationship. This is simply asking that person to spend the money that they are already going to spend on the product(s) that they are already going to buy, with someone they know and care about as opposed to a company like Apple where they likely have no reason to spend their money there. And for those of us that treat the music store seriously, my customers are no longer left to generic racks of music at a Wal-Mart, or the cold promotion of what iTunes thinks is in your best interest, they now have the same “corner record store” I had when I was growing up. I provide my customers with a free monthly magazine, a free website to have some fun with, and I am getting to know their music tastes so that I can help them find bands, movies, video games etc. that they will like and enjoy – a personal entertainment consultant. I hope that this helps you better understand what we are up to so that you might begin to embrace, what we like to call, “the democratization” of the entertainment business. I truly believe that this is the sort of business that will supplant traditional corporations in the future – it already is in the eBay world.
24rev_matt_y on Jun 14, 2007 at 12:56 pm:
Ok, I follow music pretty closely, having spent almost 10 years in music retail during and after college. The only times I’ve even heard of burnlounge have been when Consumerist or Idolator have made fun of it. And even those posts weren’t enough to get me interested in finding out more.
The whole host of logical fallacies throughout the arguments of the BL promoters and the aggressive branding both smack of True Believer syndrome. I’ll continue to ignore BL.
25Jason on Jun 14, 2007 at 1:17 pm:
Wow, these people don’t stop, do they?
Keep fighting the good fight, E.J. I’m shocked and amused at the bullying tactics of the BL henchmen. It’s obvious they’re just pasting in marketing copy and “talking points” in an attempt to shout you down. Their examples are ridiculous and out-of-context. In the last post alone, the author refers to Starbucks, McDonalds, Apple/iTunes, Papa John’s Pizza, Mary Kay, and Wal-mart. The difference between BL and all of these companies is that the former all make money from SELLING ACTUAL GOODS. If I lay down cash to franchise a McDonald’s Restaurant, I’m not required to go recruit ten of my friends to open their own Micky D’s before I start making any money off my Big Mac sales.
The above author tips his hand when he says “once you have a mature business, you then begin to make more money off of the sales in those stores as opposed to the “franchise” fee”. That’s the whole POINT of MLM schemes — very few accounts actually make it to “maturity”. Meanwhile, BL itself exploits the poor shmucks who keep feeding the beast, hoping that one day they’ll hit it big. It’s a sad scheme. Luckily, I dont think they’ll be running it much longer.
26Joe on Jun 27, 2007 at 6:47 pm:
Hello E. J.
this is my first time at your site. The Burnlounge dialog has been interesting.
Many of the Burnites have gotten a little extremist in their defense of Burnlounge. I am a
retailer and have, from the beginning, been very engaged in the triangular appearance of this
business platform. I have a belief that the new “Free” Burnpages are the foundation for true
growth of Burnlounge. I see it as a place where people will actually purchase music, movies, &
trinkets from or through my store via their free page. I was never keen on soliciting friends
to purchase a franchise, but really, is the fee of $429ish for the top level mogul program an
expectation to become a millionaire. If so, these people haven’t bothered to use their brain.
Burnlounge, by all discussions I have been involved with, should be looked at as an eye to the
future of what the potential for the digital internet experience could be. By allowing, average
Joe’s to share their interests in movies, music, and more, Burnlounge could be a fun place to
explore. Sometimes it is good to have someone, (in this case, the government) take a look at
a business to make certain it is legit, but most times, when government is involved, it is the
end of fun.
27sleeper on Jul 12, 2007 at 7:14 am:
BL reps have no friends but themselves! who wants to be bothered with a business that only makes you money if you recruit more people? It is a scam because you’re not selling the product to make money, you’re USING the product (music) as a way to get people to join the pyramid.
28Natasha on Feb 3, 2008 at 3:19 am:
wow
29Cube on Feb 13, 2008 at 11:11 am:
Interesting… all of the Burnlounge supporters have mysteriously vanished… oh, and so have all the checks they were receiving for scamming their friends and family. Movies, ringtones and videogames never came. The pyramid crumbled, just like we said it would.
Anyone still want to talk about how huge Burnlounge will be in 5 years? Anyone want to talk about RevImage or Vortexity or any other “business” the Burnscam leaders have moved on to?
30E.J. on Feb 13, 2008 at 11:28 am:
You pose an excellent question. What did happen to them?
31Cube on Apr 12, 2008 at 10:53 pm:
Well, does anyone want to come back now and admit that EJ was right all along? Thank you for your views on Burnscam and I’m glad that you were vindicated in the end. I had two brothers-in-law who got themselves and their families into this scam and it caused a lot of tension since they tried to recruit my wife.
Anyone want to come back and defend Burnlounge anymore? Now that it’s April 2008 will we be seeing that huge Burnlounge boom that was predicted at those boring meetings held in hotel conference rooms and basements?
32Maz on May 27, 2008 at 5:21 pm:
Cube! What’s up? It’s Maz.
Too bad about the old Proboards board. I wish it was still up - I’d love to see what happened with some of the old die-hard Burnscam supporters.
I just checked and the Burnlounge site is gone, all of the fan sites are gone. It’s like the whole thing just vanished.
Too funny. All those people we argued with for two years ended up looking just as stupid as we knew they would.
I just checked and I’ve still got that old burnloungesucks@hotmail.com address. Drop me a line if you see this.
I wonder what happened to Will? Bet he’s already on to the next scam.
I still laugh about Burnlounge every once in a while. What a bunch of idiots.
33Maz on May 27, 2008 at 5:28 pm:
Oh, jeez. I just read all through the comments and I’m laughing so hard I’m literally crying.
It was such a cult, wasn’t it? A complete cult. These people were either intentional scammers or completely brainwashed … and when it went poof and vanished, EXACTLY like we all said it would … they didn’t even come back to apologize to this EJ guy.
After all those posts up there, not even one of them came back and said: “My bad. You were right. Oops.”
God, I miss Burnlounge. It was so entertaining.
All you ever need to know about MLMs is in this thread. And all you need to know about people who participate can be seen in the fact that they didn’t have the integrity to come back and admit when we were all proven exactly right.
Good for you, EJ. I hope you save this post and thread and comments. It’s a monument to cult-thinking and group-stupidity.
And Jesus its funny to read now.
34E.J. on May 27, 2008 at 5:47 pm:
Hey Maz — nice to hear from you again.
I guess it’s about time to do a follow-up on this since, after all, BurnLounge appears to have disappeared into the ether. When I go to their website, there’s big black letters that simply say:
“This Account Has Been Suspended”
One good thing about MLM’s — it’s easy to close up shop and move on as if nothing happened. If we didn’t know it had happened, maybe it really didn’t.
35Cube on Jun 6, 2008 at 10:49 pm:
Hey Maz!
Since my brothers-in-law and a lot of their extended family were involved in this scam I stayed on top of all that was going on and kept checking for updates. It’s funny how this thing died an even uglier death than any of us had ever imagined. I now regularly watch a show called “American Greed” that speaks on many scams, many of them high-dollar Ponzi schemes that make Burnlounge look like the small time scam that it always was. I knew a few zealots who had no clue what had happened but still said “Oh, well the business model is changing…” when you could tell they were actually thinking, “Wow, did I get scammed”.
I have to admit that it’s great to have been right all along. This website is probably among the most hilarious of them all in regards to the Kool-Aid Komments made. I guess TJ is in hiding. I really doubt any of the people who were rude or critical of EJ will be back anytime soon.
I still don’t know whatever happened to Will/Truth/Tester/Chris/1000-other-names. I guess he’s still trying to make that first billion. Gee… and they said my declaration of victory back in July of last year was premature. I also remember the whole bees and honey comparison made by lsk, who is to date STILL the only person I ever saw come back online to admit he was totally wrong (though he never did come back to post any of those numbers he promised in bold print).
Well Maz and EJ, I guess we win! You gotta love being right!